Collage 409 H u m o u r N e t 25 Apr 1999 HumourNet has been the source of several innovations on the humour mailing list front -- but probably none has been so widely acclaimed as the Unsubscription Fee. If you're new to HumourNet, then you are new to unsubscription fees -- though a quick trip through your Welcome message will bring you up to speed on the basic idea. For the complete history of the unsub fee concept, refer to the Unsubscription Fee Archive page: Plenty of great reading in there -- and I think you'll find that this year is no different. We start off with Gary C., who was actually being quite smart about the whole deal by checking with me *before* subscribing: Is this going to cost me anything? I'm a poor restaurant owner in Frankfort, KY, and I can't afford this if it's going to cost a lot of money. I explained that it is entirely free to subscribe -- but leaving the list incurs a $5 charge. Gary seemed to be comfortable with that, and subsequently subscribed. But not everyone was smart enough to check in advance -- and since the "Goodbye" message that people receive when they unsubscribe includes a note that their credit cards have been charged the $5.00 unsubscription fee, well, I often get to converse at length with some of the synaptically challenged crowd. For example, when Jay S. found that he had screwed up to the tune of five whole dollars, he really went all out to fabricate a plausible-sounding story for us: [Editor's Note: Wherever possible, I have preserved the original spelling, punctuation, and grammar in the senders' messages. ] A few weeks ago I upgraded my netcom acct to accommodate an extra mail box. Ever since then I have been inundated by junk e-mail, and somehow got onto a bunch of mailing lists in which I have never had any interest. I have been strggling to get my name off these lists. Now you have the nerve to say you will collect $5 from me because of some "Welcome" message that I would have seen if I had actually signed onto your list. I did not subscribe to Humournet or any other of your services, and want to be removed from them with no further inconvenience to myself. Jay must be brutal at the Customer Service counter in J.C. Penney. Unfortunately, this time he failed to do his homework: HumourNet uses a standard confirmation mechanism that makes it virtually impossible for someone else to subscribe you without your knowledge (unless they have access to your e-mail account). Jay never wrote back to me. Another person who got caught by the confirmation process was Suzi N. of McLean, Virginia: SN> I NEVER SUBSCRIBED TO THIS DUMB THING SO WHY SHOULD I BE SN> FINED $5.00? PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELVES! vs: Please calm down, Suzi. Take a deep breath ... vs: There. vs: Feel better? Good. Because you'll feel rotten all over vs: again in about ten minutes (the estimated time for you to vs: read this message). vs: All subscriptions to HumourNet must be "confirmed" by vs: someone at the actual e-mail address that is trying to vs: subscribe. It is not our responsibility to screen -- or vs: even know -- EVERY person who uses your e-mail account, and vs: require individual confirmations from each of them. It is vs: your responsibility to exercise appropriate control over vs: your e-mail account, and ensure that the people who use your vs: account do not divulge your credit card numbers to the vs: undesirable elements of the Internet -- of which HumourNet vs: unquestionably is one (or more). vs: I am sorry that you feel you did not get a good value for vs: your $5.00 investment in HumourNet. However, we do vs: appreciate your patronage, so maybe that will make you feel vs: better. I never heard back from Suzi; at last report, she was still missing and presumed cured. The following message from Mihai E. simply amused me to no end. I think I might have to have it framed: I'm disappointed: I have just unsubscribed, but doing so have discovered that you're stupid. This guy spent MONTHS on HumourNet, but didn't figure that one out until he unsubscribed. And he's calling *me* stupid? Sheesh. ;-) Some people never quite seem to comprehend the whole HumourNet concept until the day they unsubscribe. Take Tamara H. in New York ... TH> Excuse me? I do not remember giving out my credit card TH> number. And I definitely do not remember any "unsubscription TH> fee" in any welcome message. I have repeatedly tried to TH> unsubscribe from this list and every few weeks you keep TH> sending more mail. So I unsubscribe again. And you send more TH> mail a few weeks later. TH> If you have obtained my credit card number it is certainly TH> through illegal means since I have never willingly revealed TH> this information to you. Therefore, I demand that you do not TH> attempt to charge me a $5 fee for finally getting off your TH> list after months of trying. vs: Hi Tamara, vs: I don't see what you are getting so upset about -- $5 isn't vs: that much! Let me know if you would like the charge removed, vs: though; for a small fee, we'll be happy to do that. But you vs: will have to pay the fee in advance by check. Fees range from vs: $2 to $8, depending on your location and the type of modem vs: you're using. Please attach a photo of your modem to the vs: check. Thanks! vs: Sincerely, vs: Vince Sabio vs: P.S. -- I'm glad to hear that you finally got off after vs: months of trying. vs: BCC: Entire Internet As you can see, I go out of my way to compose thoughtful responses to each and every one of these people -- yet I rarely hear back from them. I never received a reply from Miss Tamara. No surprise there, I guess. Sometimes I do get a response, however -- and that's when the fun REALLY starts. For example, this one from Cindy F. in Wayne, Nebraska: CF> I would like to unsubscribe to your Humour Net. Please take CF> me off of your mailing list. Thank you. vs: That will be $5.00, please. CF> Why is it 5.00 It said no where that I would ever owe any CF> money. Take me off the list. That is why I subscribed to it CF> in the first place. vs: Well, if the REASON that you subscribed in the first place vs: was to pay money, then you should have no problem with the vs: unsubscription fee. vs: In fact, you should WANT to unsubscr-- uh, okay, I think I vs: understand now. You'll be charged the $5.00 rate, just like vs: you asked, but you will have to unsubscribe yourself -- vs: otherwise I cannot charge you. CF> I didn't subscribe to pay money. It stated no where that I CF> would have to pay. I will NOT be paying the $5.00. And CF> where do I unsubscribe? vs: Actually, it stated this quite clearly in the Welcome vs: message you received when you subscribed -- you know the one vs: that starts off with, "You should keep this message for vs: future reference!" You DID keep that message, didn't you? The reference back to the Welcome message seemed to turn the trick for Cindy, as I never heard back from her after that. But not to worry; the conversation continues in other parts of the Internet. We hear next from Dahte H. of the U.S. Army PERSCOM in Heidelberg, Germany: DH> PLEASE REMOVE MY ADDRESS IMMEDIATELY FROM YOUR STUPID EMAIL DH> JOKES LISTING!!! I DID NOT ASK TO SUBSCRIBE AND WILL NOT PAY DH> YOU ANYTHING TO UNSUBSCRIBE... vs: You subscribed yourself (subscriptions have to be confirmed, vs: so no one else could have subscribed you against your will), vs: so you can unsubscribe yourself. And pay the damned fee, vs: like everyone else. Cheapskate. DH> SEND ME A COPY OF MY "SUBSCRIPTION"... vs: I'm sorry, but that is classified information. You will have vs: to demonstrate a legitimate need to know prior to release of vs: that information. DH> "CLASSIFIED" ??? DO YOU THINK THAT WILL STAND UP IN COURT ??? DH> SINCE YOU SAID THAT I SIGNED UP FOR YOUR "JOKE" EMAIL AND I DH> SAID THAT I DID NOT, I BELIEVE THE LEAST YOU CAN DO TO SHOW DH> ME MY "REQUEST"... DH> I REPEAT THE REQUEST: SEND ME THE "SUBSCRIPTION" REQUEST DH> THAT YOU SAID YOU RECEIVED FROM ME. vs: Dahte, vs: I believe that your CAPS LOCK key is stuck. If you will look vs: on the left side of your keyboard, you should see a key vs: labeled "CAPS LOCK," or "SHIFT LOCK," or "LOCK" or vs: " LOCK." Do you see it? vs: Good. Press it once. vs: Now, try typing again. I think that you will notice that you vs: suddenly have much greater control over your capitalization. vs: I realize that you're probably still new to this whole vs: "electricity" thing, so I'll try to take this one step at vs: a time. In our next session, we'll attempt to answer that vs: burning question, "Why do some people like to insert a vs: space before a question mark?" vs: Like I said, we'll take it slowly. vs: Warm regards, vs: Vince I think that the Caps Lock thing overwhelmed her somewhat, as I am still awaiting her response. It has been nearly a year now. And it has also been about that long for Dawn N. in Gaithersburg, Maryland: DN> I have never seen anything about a unsubscription fee and I DN> don't even have a credit card. I have belonged to this for DN> quite a while. If they want to charge me then forget the DN> cancellation. vs: Sorry, Dawn -- the charge has already gone through. If you vs: resubscribe, though, I'll refund your money. DN> Where are you charging this to? vs: Your credit card. Why? DN> I don't have a credit card. vs: That's odd -- VISA/MasterCard Corp. seems to think you do. vs: In fact, they delayed posting my $5 charge, since your vs: payment was three days late last month. vs: Please try to be more timely with your payments in the vs: future so that we may process our fees in an expedient vs: manner. Thank you. ANOTHER one from whom I never heard back. But not all of them fail to return my correspondence; for example, Pei in Rapid City, South Dakota, was kind enough to end the communication himself. It started with this comment in response to the Goodbye message, which states that your credit card will be billed US$5.00: PEI> I don't have a credit card, so i don't see how you could... vs: In that case, we bill it through your ISP. PEI> don't vs: Uh, *too late*. Your ISP processed the charge without any vs: questions, though, so I don't think there's a problem. vs: Thank you for your patronage. :-) PEI> No they didn't, i just checked with them, goodbye, you are PEI> on my auto-trash list Well, no need to leave in a huff, Pei; after all, it was just starting to get interesting. But that's okay, Peter G. in Minneapolis, Minnesota, stepped in to take the reins here -- and an excellent time was had by all: PG> I hope you are joking about charging me for unsubscribing, PG> as I have never authorized a charge for HumourNet. vs: This is our standard unsubscription fee, as explained quite vs: clearly in the Welcome message you received when you vs: subscribed. It has been billed through your ISP. vs: Thank you for your patronage! PG> Please send me a copy of the Welcome message you sent me to PG> verify that I've accepted this charge. I do not recall PG> authorizing or agreeing to this outrageous arrangement. vs: The Welcome message was sent to you automatically by the list vs: server when you subscribed. You know, it's the message that vs: starts off with, "You should keep this message for future vs: reference!" vs: To get a new copy of the Welcome message, you will have to vs: resubscribe and unsubscribe, in which case you will be vs: charged another $5.00. If that is unacceptable, then I'll vs: gladly send you a copy of the Welcome message for $2.50, but vs: you will have to agree to this up front. It will be charged vs: through your ISP (Netcom) in either case. vs: Again, thank you for your patronage. PG> Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I asked you to send me a copy PG> of the actual transmission you claim to have sent me, not PG> what you claim you now send. vs: Perhaps I wasn't clear enough: That's exactly what I did. PG> I can't say if I have or don't have the copy you sent, as PG> I've been receiving this mail for over a year. vs: You're *kidding*!?! And you do not recall ANY discussions vs: about the unsubscription fees? [Editor's Note: The mind boggles. ] PG> I'm filing a protest with my provider over any charge you PG> put on my account. vs: Well, they processed the charge already, so it's probably vs: too late for that. PG> This is a first class scam ... vs: EXCUSE *ME*, but there is nothing "First Class" about vs: HumourNet. Please do not try to give us more credit than vs: we deserve. PG> ... and, since it's easy to flood the bandwidth, I'll happily PG> broadcast this dishonest practice everywhere ... vs: Please be sure to include the subscription instructions and/or vs: the URL for our home page: . Thanks! PG> ... including governmental agencies that oversee interstate PG> businesses. Have you heard of wire fraud? vs: WHAT??? I never sold you any wires. PG> A more honest approach would be to reply to unsubscribe PG> requests with a reminder of the fee and to give the PG> subscriber the option of changing his mind. vs: You can still change your mind. I offer a $5 credit for vs: resubscribes; simple as that. But did you think to ASK me vs: about that before threatening to turn me over to the IRS, vs: FBI, SEC, HHS, IDA, DOD, CIA, NSA, NRO, DOT, DOC, PHD, BSEE, vs: GNU, TCP/IP, DUH, DNRC, and NAACP? vs: No, you didn't, did you? vs: Well, I'm not going to tell you about it until you ask ... A little while later, I received this ... Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 04:59:02 -0600 To: accounting@netcom.com From: Peter G. Subject: Protesting a charge on my account Cc: "Vince Sabio, HumourNet Moderator" Hi! I'm writing to protest a charge that is being posted to my Netcom account by HumourNet. I asked to unsubscribe and was informed that I am being billed, through my ISP, Netcom, $5 to unsubscribe. I have no recollection of agreeing to this, and did not get a warning before the charge was applied. Had I known, I'd have simply remained subscribed and filtered the mail to my trash. I believe this is a fraudulent practice, and since it's an internet commercial enterprise, this is probably interstate wire fraud. Please do not honor this vendor's charge to my Netcom account. Here's some of our correspondence: [insert correspondence] Sometimes, it's like shooting staked rabbits. Oddly enough, Netcom never contacted me about reversing the charge. Nor did they press charges for wire fraud. I can only guess that they are still laughing too hard to press the SEND buttons on their mail clients. Speaking of defrauding the public, we hear yet another complaint about HumourNet from Scott D. in London, Ontario: SD> Exactly witch credit card number do you plan on charging, for SD> me for unsubscribing, because I know it cant be mine. Good SD> luck! vs: We bill it through the credit card that you supplied to your vs: ISP. SD> This is not something that I am impressed with. It has to do SD> with the reputation of the business which you are trying to SD> operate. vs: Reputation? Sure, we have a reputation -- not a *good* one, vs: mind you, but it's a reputation and we're damned proud of it. SD> I did not supply a credit card number to my ISP ... vs: No problem -- then we bill it directly through your ISP, and vs: it will appear on your bill when you renew your account. Or vs: if you really *did* supply a credit card number, then it'll vs: automatically bill to that. SD> ... but, I will now inform others of your "customer SD> unfriendly" practices. vs: Thank you! Please be sure to include subscription vs: instructions. :-) I have a hunch that Scott never sent the subscription instructions to any of his friends. Damned liar. Another one who apparently reneged on his offer to help spread The Word was William W.: WW> How do you plan to charge my credit card 5.00 since I never WW> gave you the number. vs: If you forgot to include the number in your unsubscription vs: message, then please send it ASAP. Remember to include the vs: expiration date and a digitized copy of your signature. vs: Or we can simply bill it through your ISP. Your choice. Just vs: let me know so I can get it processed before the quarterly vs: report is due. WW> I thought this was a free service when I subscribed? vs: It *was* a free service when you subscribed. It *stopped* vs: being a free service when you UNsubscribed. That's why we vs: call it an "unsubscription fee." Read the Welcome message vs: you received when you subscribed; it's all spelled out in vs: 12-pt black-and-white Monaco text in the Welcome message. vs: (Your settings may vary.) vs: You *did* save the Welcome message, did you not? If not, vs: then you can get another copy by simply resubscribing. Of vs: course, if you subsequently re-unsubscribe, you will incur vs: another $5.00 fee. Sorry -- it's the way our accounts vs: receivable software is written; no way around that. (If vs: you think THAT'S bad, you should see the Y2K problem we vs: have. *WOW*!) WW> Let me know if I was wrong so I can make sure all my WW> friends know. vs: You were wrong -- but *thank you* for telling all your vs: friends about us! Please be sure to include our URL and vs: subscription instructions when you tell them. vs: Thanks again, William. This is one of the nicest favors that vs: I could ever expect from someone who was caught completely vs: unawares by the unsubscription fee! And be sure to let them vs: know that HumourNet carries *NO ADVERTISING* whatsoever. vs: (A lot of people really like that.) A little while later, I had the distinct honor of replying to William once again: WW> Sorry but I'm not playing this game..... vs: Oh. Does this mean that you won't be telling all your vs: friends about us? Another Unsubscription Fee-style notification that has also been very successful is the HumourNet Contribution Fee -- whenever you send a contribution in to HumourNet (to the correct address), you receive a response thanking you for your contribution and informing you that your credit card has been charged the nominal $0.50 contribution fee. Janet K. of Newport Beach doesn't seem to like that idea as much as I do: JK> There must have been some sort of mistake. I had no intention JK> of making any contribution to your organization. Also, may I JK> ask how you were able to get my credit card number? I sure JK> don't remember disclosing this information to anybody in JK> your organization. I'm a bit concerned that you have my JK> personal information (i.e. credit card number) accessible JK> for you to use as you please. JK> Please disregard the note that was sent to you accidentally. JK> I had and have no intention of making any financial JK> contribution to your organization. vs: Nothing at all to worry about, Janet -- the process by which vs: we charge your credit card is entirely automated (it is vs: handled by via SSL by the SMTP, DUH, and IMAP servers) and I vs: do not personally have access to the information. Nor am I vs: allowed to, according to the settlement that we struck with vs: the Circuit Court of Mandarin County last year (see The vs: People vs. Vincent Jonathon Sabio, Francies Allen Township vs: Sheriff's Office, May 1997). vs: As for the note that was sent in error: I'm sorry, but the vs: charge is only $0.50. Processing a refund carries a $2.00 vs: minimum charge, so I try to avoid doing that. If you send me vs: your postal address, though, I will gladly mail you the vs: fifty cents (minus postage). And then a little while later ... JK> I understand that your organization encourages humor, vs: We do subsidize humour coursework at the college level, yes. JK> but I think this is one of those few occasions to be JK> serious. vs: Huh? Who died? JK> Was $0.50 charged to my credit card because I've JK> accidentally sent you an e-mail which you have incorrectly JK> assumed that I've shown a desire to make a contribution? vs: No, it was charged because you sent a contribution to the vs: address that is used for contributions, and contributions vs: incur a fee. Note that this fee is charged REGARDLESS of vs: whether the contribution is accepted. Just for the record, I vs: rejected it. Though "unsubscribe humournet" is really pretty vs: amusing, I'm afraid that most of the list won't understand vs: the humour. JK> I'm a bit confused now. I've read the contribution JK> guidelines and it says that there are no contribution fees, JK> and yet your explanation from your last e-mail makes it seem JK> like there really is a contribution fee involved here. vs: One of them is correct. I'd put my money on the Welcome vs: message that you received when you joined the list. Did you vs: save it? It told you to. Check the section on list fees, vs: entitled "LIST POLICY AND CORPORATE KNOWLEDGE." JK> Would you please try to be serious for just this once and JK> tell me the truth. Am I going to be charged $0.50 for JK> accidentally sending you an e-mail? If so, I don't think JK> that's very funny. vs: Well, THAT'S because you're the one paying and I'm the one vs: receiving. If you thought that was funny, I'd be recommending vs: psychiatric help. Speaking of psychiatric help, Leon L. in Powassan, Ontario, offers some expert advice: Dear Vince, I read with interest your collage 375. I must say, as a psychotherapist, that you really need help. To make fun at the expense of another, such as a practical joke, without the other knowing and then to continue with that line, provoking more of the same, is second level abberant behaviour. I guess you can rejoice in that it isn't third level. Yet you really need help. This is only a symptom, which indicates that there are other areas in your relationships that might not be as fulfilling, either to you or the other person. I'm a little more worried about the other person. You could be considered menacing in your behaviour. I seriously suggest that you consider getting some therapy. I'm billing you $70 for the diagnosis. Sorry, Leon, but you can't bill me until I _quit_ therapy. (BTW, our lovely assistant moderator, Kim, would like to go on record as agreeing with your diagnosis entirely.) Also, please note that I've increased *your* unsubscription fee to $70 -- which is exactly double the fee that I threatened to impose in Collage 392: Collage 392 H u m o u r N e t 01 Apr 1998 Due to the rising cost of e-mail and the suspicious lack of unsubs recently, I am considering increasing the unsubscription fee from US$5.00 to US$35.00. Either that, or I might have John Mozena guest moderate again; the unsubscription fees from his last round in the driver's seat nearly covered the entire R&D costs for HumourNet's geosynchronous communications satellite program. I'm still tossed up whether it'll be a fee increase or John Mozena. Remember, HumourNet is still -- and will always be -- entirely free to *join*, and there are no fees whatsoever for remaining on the list. The only time that you will ever encounter *ANY* fees whatsoever from this list is if you decide to unsubscribe. If you are unfamiliar with the unsubscription fee, please refer to the Welcome message you received when you joined the list. If you lost your Welcome message, then send the command "get humournet hello" (without the quotes) to the list server: . A new Welcome message will be returned to you. (There is a $0.50 fee for this service.) One of the most interesting aspects of the unsubscription fee concept is how it migrates to other mailing lists. Kathy B. in El Paso, Texas, noticed the following similarity in an ADMIN post on another mailing list the very next day, and alerted me to it immediately: Subject: [ADMIN] Mac News Wire fee restructuring From: Michael D Flaminio Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:09:02 -0500 Due to the rising cost of e-mail and the suspicious lack of unsubcriptions recently, I am considering increasing the unsubscription fee from US$5.00 to US$35.00. Either that or I will once again stop using my spell checker. The last time I went without my spell checker, the fees gained nearly paid for my trip to Arizona. I have yet to decided whether to raise the fee or drop the spell checker. Note that the Mac News Wire is still free to join. You will only incur a fee if you wish to leave the list. If you are unaware of this fee, please refer to the "Welcome" message you received when you originally joined. If you did not retain this message as instructed, a new copy can be obtained by sending an email to macnews@insanely-great.com with the subject "help." There is a $1 charge for this service. [BTW, Insanely Great Mac does have a pretty hot web site; if you're a Mac user, you can check it out at ] Well, imitation *is* the sincerest form of flattery -- and Insanely Great Mac isn't the only organization that is flattering me these days. Adam Bernay wrote to me about using the unsubscription fee idea on his mailing list, too: Hello! I must say that I am rather disturbed by this notion of an Unsubscription Fee... not that I think it's for real, but by the fact that I didn't think of it first! I am the editor of several newsletters, a few of which are free, and I would like to put this unique concept to work for these publications. I know that the Unsub Fee is Patented (or Patent Pending). I am sure there is no Licensing Fee to use this concept, but I was wondering what the Unlicensing Fee is, so I will have the appropriate amount in my debit card account when I stop using it. Please let me know what the Unlicensing Fee when you get a chance. It's very important that I know, so please respond soon. Also, if you do not get this message, please let me know so I can resend it. We're still working out the details on the Unlicensing Fee; more info on that will be posted as soon as negotiations are complete. Another guy who's always trying to horn in on my Unsubscription Fee Empire is Ray Owens of JokeADay . Ray has a great sense of humour, and likes to copy me on certain types of correspondence -- including anything related to Unsubscription Fees. This one was from a discussion between him and someone named Pei in Rapid City, South Dakota (remember him? ) ... PEI> Damn, quick responce, at least you don't charge an PEI> unsubscribe fee like that damn a** piece of s*** HumourNet. RO> But I *do* charge an unsub fee like Vince does. The only RO> thing is: I have to give *him* a royalty. (He owns the RO> copyright, two trademarks AND a patent on it. It's a real RO> pain in the a** because it cuts into my revenue stream, but RO> what can I do?) I suppose I could register the unsubscribe RO> fees in a foreign country (I *am* in 137 of 'em), but Vince RO> *ALSO* has these NASA contacts. That would make him a RO> dangerous person to attempt to take away some of his money. RO> He's got access to spy satellites and the like -- I'd just RO> as soon give him his piece of the unsub fee and be done RO> with it. :) Following this exchange, Ray subsequently had someone ask him if HumourNet's unsubscription fee was genuine. Really bad idea to ask Ray a question like that, as he's not one to pass up an opportunity to have some fun with people; personally, I find this to be a rather offensive and obnoxious personality flaw -- but you can read the whole thing and draw your own conclusions: . ;-) (Seriously, check it out -- it's pretty darned hysterical.) But the flattery doesn't end there -- Chris White's Top5 list recently instituted unsubscription fees , and even a satellite cable company has copied the idea! According to Nicolas T. in Clinton, Massachusetts: I recently subscribed to the Dish Network satellite cable system. They have 3 basic starter packages ... I told them I'd like to subscribe to the 50 channel package, to see if it was worth it, and possibly switch to the 40 channels later if I find I don't watch the extra channels. The nice lady at the other end told me it costs $5 to downgrade a service. To upgrade to better service is free. Thanks for introducing the concept. :( Heck, thank *you* for letting me know that my attorney needs to make a few more long-distance telephone calls, Nicolas. Generally, at this point, I would segue into a discussion of those people who have "figured it out"; I receive some pretty amusing mail from subscribers who are having fun with the Unsubscription Fee concept. But since this Collage is already well over its character count (there are far too many characters in here already), I will have to save that for a future Collage. Not only will it include some amusing mail from subscribers who've applied the Unsub Fee concept themselves, but, in the "Revenge Is Sweet" department, it will also include the one subscriber who has successfully nailed the HumourNet Moderator on his own scam. Stay tuned ... - Vince Sabio HumourNet Moderator moderator@humournet.com ____________________________________________________________________ Copyright 1999 by Vincent Sabio Permission is hereby granted to forward or post this message; please observe the guidelines stated below. ____________________________________________________________________ ******************************************************************** Anyone without a sense of humor is at the mercy of the rest of us. ******************************************************************** HumourNet is brought to you by "Lyris" -- an innovative list server from Lyris Technologies, Inc.: . HumourNet's Web and FTP sites are hosted by gamerz.net: . 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